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Author Topic: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets  (Read 5850 times)

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Offline jasT1981

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Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« on: November 01, 2016, 01:20:55 PM »
Looks like the Reds are going to be moving on from the Hawk T1s in the near future.

9 Typhoons side by side? :D Though how about just an upgrade to the Hawk T2?     

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37833311

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The Red Arrows aerobatic team will get new planes, Defence Secretary Sir Michael Fallon has confirmed.

The announcement comes as RAF stations in Lincolnshire celebrate their 100th anniversary.

There has been some uncertainty in recent years whether the team based at RAF Scampton would be retained.

Sir Michael said the team's current Hawk jets need to be replaced and a decision will be made over the next couple of years.

He said it was too early to say which aircraft would replace the Hawk jets.

Offline Angry Turnip

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2016, 01:28:20 PM »
The Hawk T2 would be the most likely upgrade.

Offline gadwall58

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2016, 01:59:29 PM »
Aren't the RAF due to get new two-seat trainers in the near future so this would make sense.

Offline Sneaky_Nikon

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2016, 05:58:33 PM »
Probably still a couple of billion to be wrung from Hawk which will make the team viable as an advertisement for a few years yet.
It'll be bargain basement and "emerging" customers though.  I'd expect to see them heading East/South again.
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Offline jasT1981

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2016, 06:47:17 PM »
Saw a suggestion of 7 Hawk T2s and the Synchro pair using the Tranche 1 Typhoons. That would be a good display.

Hawk T2 is probably what they will go with. Really enjoyed the T2s at Portrush last September.

Offline theflyingcello

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2016, 08:43:18 PM »
Seen a few suggestions elsewhere that the Hawk T2 is unsuitable! Don't know why...

Also, a good point made on PPrune...is this a vague promise to gauge public opinion? Can we do without the Reds? Are there more 'don't cares' than supporters?

The idea of 7 x T2 plus 2 Typhoons...that I like!

Offline rookie

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2016, 08:56:56 PM »
Concept ideas  ;D

Offline jasT1981

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2016, 09:01:10 PM »
That paint scheme (with new tail) would look great on an F35. I  do really like the look of that concept art.

Hopefully an F35 will display next summer again in the UK.

Offline Angry Turnip

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2016, 09:03:48 PM »
I strongly suspect the team will be cut back to 7 seven aircraft,and as the Reds have mainly been about promoting the Hawk and the RAF,it`s almost certain the Hawk T2 will be chosen.

If they did decide to use the new T-6 Texan II`s I would be very surprised.

Offline jasT1981

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2016, 09:06:35 PM »
I would be surprised if they go for the T6. Don't see them downgrading to a prop from jets. Would be very unpopular as them using jets are a massive part of the draw for them. The general public would not be quite as interested in a prop based Red Arrows.

Offline Sneaky_Nikon

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 11:44:21 PM »
Let's not get too excited chaps...

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Amendment: This story was changed on November 1 to reflect the defence secretary's comments that the Red Arrows fleet would be reviewed rather than imminently replaced.
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Offline jasT1981

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2016, 04:32:08 PM »
Seen a few suggestions elsewhere that the Hawk T2 is unsuitable! Don't know why...


Reading a bit more into this today, I have seen a few say the Reds pilots have said the T2 is 'not suitable for aerobatics' compared to the T1

Offline theflyingcello

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2016, 05:52:28 PM »
Seen a few suggestions elsewhere that the Hawk T2 is unsuitable! Don't know why...

I have seen a few say the Reds pilots have said the T2 is 'not suitable for aerobatics' compared to the T1

Hmmm...strange if true! Why would that be? Surely the basic airframe is the same, so g-loading should be similar. The basic engineering should be the same too...fuel system, hydraulics, control surfaces. So what could make the difference? Curious...

Offline rookie

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2016, 07:43:26 PM »
Found this convo on arrse:-

in fairly simple terms there is a significant difference between the way we use the T1 and T2. The Hawk T1 is essentially a 1970s jet trainer with rudimentary instrumentation and at its heart built around a philopsophy of taking a basic pilot and getting them ready to go to a fast jet conversion course. Although updated a lot, its continued to do that job bloody well for nearly 40 years. 

The T2 shares a name and a similar look and about 5% of the airframe components and thats it. Inside its a totally new beast , built with glass cockpit and designed to get pilots to a stage where they can far more quickly progress from Hawk - Front line with much shorter time on the OCU as a result. Its got a totally different design philosophy and handles in a totally different manner. 

You really cant 'fit for but not with' as it would essentially mean an entirely new airframe is required to do the job. The T1 is a great and cheap little airframe which is arguably the best jet trainer ever made. The T2 is an outstanding trainer aircraft, but arguably not an aerobatics aircraft. I am only half joking in saying that the best solution for the Reds may be to replace the Hawk with a squadron of Typhoon T1 airframes as they leave front line service.


Offline rookie

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2016, 07:57:58 PM »
It could be worse lol

Offline jasT1981

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2017, 03:06:27 PM »
BAE  have built a new 'Advanced' Hawk trainer. Wonder if it will be considered.

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During her visit to Aero India 2017 this week, Harriett Baldwin MP, UK Minister for Defence Procurement met with both BAE Systems and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and was given a demonstration of the partnership's latest collaboration, the Advanced Hawk fast jet trainer.


Offline Angry Turnip

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2017, 03:56:51 PM »
There are so many different versions of the Hawk it`s quite surprising,most are export types and are often overlooked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Hawk
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 03:57:06 PM by Angry Turnip »

Offline smudge

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2017, 04:35:55 PM »
BAE  have built a new 'Advanced' Hawk trainer. Wonder if it will be considered.

Hawk, Advanced [n]: see Horse, Dead, flogging thereof.

Offline jasT1981

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Re: Red Arrows to replace Hawk Jets
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2017, 06:04:09 PM »