Northern Ireland Aviation Enthusiast's Forum
General Aviation Discussion => General Aviation Discussion => Topic started by: jasT1981 on August 22, 2015, 01:59:44 PM
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A Hunter has gone down at Shoreham today. :( Early reports say it crashed onto the road, Pilot has been pulled from wreckage according to some reports, so he may not have gotten out in time.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/22/hawker-hunter-plane-crash-shoreham-air-show-reports
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The newsflash from Sky News stated:
"A World War Two Hawker Hunter plane has crashed..."
Groan ::)
A five second fact check is clearly beyond some people.
No word on the pilot so far.
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Doesn`t sound good if the pilot was unable to eject,apprently it was performing a loop manoeuvre,but did not have time/space to recover. :'(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34027260
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Don't know if its due to the crash but the Shoreham Airshow website is currently down.
A quick scan of the running order on their FB page doesn't show a Hunter, but it isn't a complete list apparently.
Wonder was it a last minute replacement/addition?
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WV372 T7 was on the list.
Not liking the BBC mentioning "several" casualties.
Edit:- Aircraft or aircraft parts hit vehicles before impact and there are casualties on the ground. This is not good.
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WV372 T7 was on the list.
Not liking the BBC mentioning "several" casualties.
Yeah, the post I was looking at was only referring to 'key timings'.
Sky News saying the plane came down on a main road and hit several cars.
Doesn't sound good.
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The 'planes tv' coverage is very worrying if it hit parallel to a road full of traffic?
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G-BXFI WV372 displayed at Bray last month,sounds like a dreadful accident. :'(
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/286/19917376532_1cd2cb6b3e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/wm2L8E)Hawker Hunter T.7 G-BXFI d (https://flic.kr/p/wm2L8E) by Paul McAllister / AT Images (https://www.flickr.com/photos/97499763@N06/), on Flickr
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Just watched the Sky News coverage and an eye witness said it was a 2 seat Hawker Hunter and it came down at a set of traffic lights on the main A27 road after failing to complete a loop.
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Just watched the Sky News coverage and an eye witness said it was a 2 seat Hawker Hunter and it came down at a set of traffic lights on the main A27 road after failing to complete a loop.
Sky also reported it as a WWII jet.
Pilot is apparently recovering in hospital and was pulled from the planes wreckage, so no ejection. Though there are mixed reports still on that.
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Taken from AirLive.net.
Looks to be clearest view so far of what happened.
https://youtu.be/pvHplYmh2f8 (https://youtu.be/pvHplYmh2f8)
:(
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Is this one of the midairs?
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Is this one of the midairs?
Not officially, although it's flown with/for them on occasion (I think).
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Is this one of the midairs?
No, but it was on lease to them last year when XL600 was out of action. Both Mid Air Squadron Hunters, along with their Canberra have been grounded for 2015 and will be back in the air next year hopefully.
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I'd be a tad worried about whether this incident will affect what we see next year generally.
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From that video it looks as if it stalled.
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Just on Beeb, seven confirmed dead.
Bloody hell!
Edit - Suspect you'll see the attached in the press tomorrow.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Registered to Canfield Hunter Ltd and flown by Team Viper.
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Just on Beeb, seven confirmed dead.
Bloody hell!
Edit - Suspect you'll see the attached in the press tomorrow.
Apparently the media are falling over themselves to get that pic :(
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I was surprised The Blades did their display after what had happened-it was pretty obvious there was going to be fatalities in the accident-I note the Vulcan did one pass,then departed.
Not an easy call to make ,and its down to the organisers and pilots how they feel,but I would have thought with the airshow community being as close as it is,scrubbing the flying would have been the best and most respectful option.
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My thoughts are with the dead and their loved ones and those injured, especially those who suffered burns in this tragic incident.
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I was surprised The Blades did their display after what had happened-it was pretty obvious there was going to be fatalities in the accident-I note the Vulcan did one pass,then departed.
Not an easy call to make ,and its down to the organisers and pilots how they feel,but I would have thought with the airshow community being as close as it is,scrubbing the flying would have been the best and most respectful option.
Cancelling events which have very large crowds in attendance can be problematic in itself. Particularly if the road you need to get them out on is closed. Give them something to look at and you get time to think about it.
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Like I said,there is no easy answer in a situation like this-I believe the show was stopped after a little while.
It`s a dreadful situation,and I really feel for the families of those who have died and the injured.
It does appear in the video`s that the aircraft suffered some sort of stall,or possible power loss,doubtless there will be some repercussions over this accident.
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Like I said,there is no easy answer in a situation like this-I believe the show was stopped after a little while.
It`s a dreadful situation,and I really feel for the families of those who have died and the injured.
It does appear in the video`s that the aircraft suffered some sort of stall,or possible power loss,doubtless there will be some repercussions over this accident.
Let's say I wouldn't like to be trying to purchase third party liability for my warbird anytime soon.
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Very true indeed. The F700's or civilian equivalent will be gone through with a fine toothcomb, as will the pilot's log, medical, etc.
RIP the unfortunates that passed away and speedy, full recovery to the injured.
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Could also have repercussions for insurance for the likes of the camping & viewing Farms opposite RIAT.
Ironically as CAA regulations have pushed display lines farther away from paying spectators they have moved the risk over non-attendees. Many display venues are too small to contain the displays when high-energy manoeuvres have to conclude at least 350 metres from the crowd.
Well I say 'ironic' but this point was raised every time the regs were tightened.
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Andy Hill has flown at Portrush several times. Hope he pulls through
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Some dramatic still pictures on BBC news website.
Pilot got the nose up just before impact.
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There's a photo on the BBC website where the Hunter is coming to the top of the loop. At that time it has flaps deployed? I would have thought that you would be in a clean configuration when doing a loop? No flaps?
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/64FD/production/_85135852_jprowe6.jpg
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Andy Hill has flown at Portrush several times. Hope he pulls through
RV8tors?
Edit:- Reading between the lines, and even reading what's been written on the lines in some quarters, enjoy Portrush or any other show you get the opportunity to visit in the near future.
I think things are about to change, possibly quite radically.
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There's a photo on the BBC website where the Hunter is coming to the top of the loop. At that time it has flaps deployed? I would have thought that you would be in a clean configuration when doing a loop? No flaps?
There are a number of aircraft that can use 'manouvring flap' and the Hunter is in that list, from posts on other forums I understand flying aeros in the Hunter with 23 deg flap is normal.
PFCC
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There has been some reports in the media,and terminology used,which I can only describe as utter dung in relation to this terrible accident.
Several news outlets and newspapers seem to be obsessed that the aircraft was from the 1950`s,and that it was "attempting a loop-the-loop stunt" ::)
The media are asking these questions,yet they are not interviewing the correct people to get the answers.
I have yet to see anyone interviewed that operates jet warbirds-possibly because they would explain that these aircraft are maintained to the highest possible standards,and that display routines flown have to be approved by the CAA,most aircraft will submit a good weather,and bad weather display routine.
The aircraft are flown by ex military aircraft pilots,and many are also qualified instructors with vast experience
Also stupid questions like "why was the aircraft flying over the road",my question would be why were the approach roads not closed during the airshow?
As mentioned by others this accident will likely have severe repercussions to the airshow scene,and I am sure there will be things that need to be looked at-I just hope there is not some daft knee-jerk reaction by the CAA.
There are only so many safety measures that can be put in place,and especially for what goes on outside the airfield/airshow venue.
Police are now saying 11 people are thought to have died.This is subject to further investigation. :(
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Watch Sky News channel. This morninrg they interviewed a friend of of Andy Hill who is a former Hunter display pilot. He discussed what might have caused the accident, pointing out that display aircraft are maintained to a very high standard and that most accidents are due to pilot error.
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Watch Sky News channel. This morninrg they interviewed a friend of of Andy Hill who is a former Hunter display pilot. He discussed what might have caused the accident, pointing out that display aircraft are maintained to a very high standard and that most accidents are due to pilot error.
Was that the interview with Neil McCarthy, The NJP pilot?
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Yes.
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There has been some reports in the media,and terminology used,which I can only describe as utter dung in relation to this terrible accident.
Several news outlets and newspapers seem to be obsessed that the aircraft was from the 1950`s,and that it was "attempting a loop-the-loop stunt" ::)
The media are asking these questions,yet they are not interviewing the correct people to get the answers.
I have yet to see anyone interviewed that operates jet warbirds-possibly because they would explain that these aircraft are maintained to the highest possible standards,and that display routines flown have to be approved by the CAA,most aircraft will submit a good weather,and bad weather display routine.
The aircraft are flown by ex military aircraft pilots,and many are also qualified instructors with vast experience
Also stupid questions like "why was the aircraft flying over the road",my question would be why were the approach roads not closed during the airshow?
As mentioned by others this accident will likely have severe repercussions to the airshow scene-I just hope there is not some daft knee-jerk reaction by the CAA.
There are only so many safety measures that can be put in place,and especially for what goes on outside the airfield/airshow venue.
Police are now suggesting 11 people are now thought to have died. :(
It's the what goes on outside the venue bit that's going to be problematic here and the question asked will ultimately be " Should this event have happened at Shoreham?"
The answer to which... Isn't likely to be popular on here.
This will go beyond AAIB, police & CAA investigations, we're looking at a public enquiry and I cannot see the result being us continuing with the status quo.
Looking around the forums and the like at the comments of those who organise and indeed fly displays, there seems to be an acceptance that something has to change.
The question, for us enthusiasts, is what will that be?
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Watch Sky News channel. This morninrg they interviewed a friend of of Andy Hill who is a former Hunter display pilot. He discussed what might have caused the accident, pointing out that display aircraft are maintained to a very high standard and that most accidents are due to pilot error.
I don`t have Sky News,but I just read the report online.
Sky News are one of the ones that reffered to the "Loop the loop stunt",and called the aircraft "a stunt plane" Complete cobblers! >:(
Neil McCarthy, a friend of Mr Hill and a former Hawker Hunter pilot, said Mr Hill is an "excellent" pilot.
"He's a great bloke and a very, very accomplished pilot. An expert at what he does and a very, very safe pilot," he told Sky News.
"Once he left the RAF, he carried on in civilian use as a civilian pilot for an airline and has flown many, many types of aircraft for numerous years on the display circuit - an excellent pilot."
He added: "There could have been a mechanical issue with the aircraft. You just don't know.
"There's rumours flying around that there was an air space restriction at the time from Gatwick airport. I don't know. I wasn't there.
"I have displayed there before, but I'm not aware of that in the past. But we'll have to wait for the actual report to come out before we know the full details."
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My own belief in this case it was a freak accident,very likely a one off-the fact that the roads around the airfield were not closed during the airshow does seem like a mistake,if only from the point of avoiding accidents due to drivers being distracted,or parking up to watch the action.
There has been tragic fatal accidents in so many other outdoor activities,be it motor racing,rallying,horse riding,motor cycles,football etc,but none of these things have been banned,and I don`t think airshows,or flying vintage types deserves to be banned because of what happened in this case either.
As a spectator in any sort of activity there is always a certain amount of risk involved;organisers do as much as they can to make everybody involved as safe as possible,but sometimes a freak sequence of events,that could not have been forscene will happen.
I just hope the CAA and AAIB etc look at this and see if anything does need to change,even if it`s just specific to that venue.
None of us want to see terrible events like this happen,but at the same time it should not be a signal to start banning airshows.
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Loop-the-Loop is what the general public has called the manoeuvre since the ealiest days of flying displays. In the TV interview Neil Mccarthy definitely discussed pilot error. From the footage I have seen the Hunter was way too low to complete a loop from the altitude he started. He may have intended to do a roll off the top.
IMHO this will make no difference to insurance premiums - unless the car insurers use it as an excuse to raise car premiums. I also believe it will have no effect on air displays. In 1988 three aircraft of The Frecce Tricolori collided overy Ramstein AFB, killing three pilots and 67 spectators, 345 spectators were seriously injured.
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I don't think anyone is going through ban airshows, but I'll bet my house on the fact that there'll be changes made in the safety regulations pertaining to them.
The key point is one you touched on earlier, the accident happened "outside the wire" the dead are largely (all?) non participants and that's where it fundamentally differs from road racing for instance.
There is no hobby/entertainment/passtime that is going to cause the deaths of numerous non connected individuals in a slack afternoon and come out the other side unchanged.
I'd expect regulation on the nature of display flying (fewer hi-z displays, possibly none by non service a/c) and regulation on venues (no shows happening where the display line and overshoot areas cannot be sterilised) but that's speculation.
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Loop-the-Loop is what the general public has called the manoeuvre since the ealiest days of flying displays. In the TV interview Neil Mccarthy definitely discussed pilot error. From the footage I have seen the Hunter was way too low to complete a loop from the altitude he started. He may have intended to do a roll off the top.
IMHO this will make no difference to insurance premiums - unless the car insurers use it as an excuse to raise car premiums. I also believe it will have no effect on air displays. In 1988 three aircraft of The Frecce Tricolori collided overy Ramstein AFB, killing three pilots and 67 spectators, 345 spectators were seriously injured.
The Ramstein crash caused the significsnt modification of display safety criteria throughout Europe.
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But it didn't result in them being banned.
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But it didn't result in them being banned.
I don't believe anyone has seriously suggested banning airshows, a few eejits on Facebook maybe?
But as I said above, there's no way this is going to be written off as "just one of those things".
Display flying will change.
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Another angle shown here :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34034784
I find this video particularly interesting because it shows that the aircraft was suspiciously slow at the top of the loop. The pilot should probably have just rolled out at that point and aborted the move.
As the Hunter came down towards the road you can clearly see that it is in a stall as the left wing gives way and it starts to wobble badly. At that point there was no way out.
Needless to say.. the guy operating the camera is extremely lucky to get away with his life!
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After watching all of the footage it looks like the plane was too low to begin with. I just hope the pilot can recover to tell investigators what happened.
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British Air Display Association statement http://www.bada-uk.com/2015/08/information-note-following-shoreham-airshow-accident-on-22nd-august-2015/
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Seems that the inevitable is about to happen.......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34044383
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I know people lost their lives, but this is a very knee jerk reaction. At least wait until the facts are established etc.
Would I be right in assuming the road would not have been part of the display line, or anywhere near it, and whatever went wrong caused the aircraft to be further out away from the display line? If the loop had been completed properly, no doubt he would have gone into a turn away from the road and back towards the airfield?
Looking on the map, the A27 is on the far side of the airfield a good bit away from the main runway
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Shoreham+Airport/@50.83353,-0.2906681,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x3dd527ac04e875c
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Looking on the map, the A27 is on the far side of the airfield a good bit away from the main runway
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Shoreham+Airport/@50.83353,-0.2906681,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x3dd527ac04e875c
The Google rendering is pretty confusing as the main runway is actually the NE-SW 03-21, extending which bisects the road and railway.
If you switch to satellite view you can see it's tarmax whereas 07-25 is grass
Edit: they've renumbered the runways since my ancient Pooleys was issued, 03-21 is now 02-20!
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Some of the videos seem to show that the aircraft did not fly a straight loop. Rather it had a slight roll going on throughout the top of the move possibly changing it from the intended exit course?
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Hunters all grounded. Vintage jets no longer allowed to do aerobatic stunts and restricted to flypasts when over land. This shouldn't affect Portrush as it is over the sea.
Civil Aviation Authority announces series of immediate restrictions and changes to UK civil air displays
Aviation regulator the CAA has announced that flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until former notice, and that no further flights are to be made by Hawker Hunter aircraft for a temporary period of time. In a statement, the CAA said:
The thoughts of everyone at the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) remain with all of those affected by the tragic accident at the Shoreham Air Show on Saturday 22 August.
Following the accident we immediately began an urgent review and have, today, announced a series of immediate restrictions and changes to UK civil air displays.
• As a precaution, on Saturday 22 August we took steps to ensure no further flights were made by Hawker Hunter aircraft - this temporary restriction remains in place.
• Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted.
• The CAA will conduct additional risk assessments on all forthcoming civil air displays to establish if additional measures should be introduced.
• We commenced a full review of civil air display safety yesterday and held an initial meeting this morning.
The safety standards that must be met by all major civil air displays in the UK are among the very highest in the world and are regularly reviewed. All air display arrangements, including the pilots and aircraft, must meet rigorous safety requirements. Individual display pilots are only granted approval following a thorough test of their abilities.
The CAA will continue to offer every assistance to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch as it seeks to establish the cause of the accident. The CAA will also act promptly in response to any emerging indications from the AAIB’s investigation.
Further details will be provided in the coming days. The CAA said it will continue to work with the industry to ensure “the most appropriate action” is taken as a result of its review.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2015/aug/24/shoreham-airshow-disaster-police-fear-death-toll-could-rise-latest-updates
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Well perhaps it's a blessing that this is the Vulcan's last season. Airshows in Britain are going to be very, very boring from this point forth.
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It now opens the debate as to what a 'vintage' jet is. Red Arrows Hawk T1s are all 1980 or before. On the UK and Ireland display circuit the only modern jet would be the Typhoon as most are a lot older.
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Well perhaps it's a blessing that this is the Vulcan's last season. Airshows in Britain are going to be very, very boring from this point forth.
I don't think the Vulcan would be affected so much, while it does a great display, there are very few 'High energy' aerobatics. At most it does a wing over but mostly is flying up and down and at a far less tempo than the likes of the Hunter and Reds etc
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It now opens the debate as to what a 'vintage' jet is. Red Arrows Hawk T1s are all 1980 or before. On the UK and Ireland display circuit the only modern jet would be the Typhoon as most are a lot older.
I was just thinking the same.. Where do you draw that line?
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re: The Reds
I would prefer the Hawks replaced. I was watching a Blue Angels display on YouTube and the sound and presence of 6 x F-18's (includes the two synchro) was impressive.
Alas we will probably not see them replaced. Rather they (as a team) will just be discontinued when the times comes to replace :-(
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EASA definition of 'vintage' used to be:
1. Designed prior to 1955
AND
2. Construction ceased prior to 1975
Not sure if this is a rolling-window or fixed dates. Google not being helpful today.
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What have they classified as a 'vintage jet'? Modern planes go wrong too.
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Damage limitation. As I said over the weekend, you don't kill a clart of totally unconnected people and expect your sport/entertainment pursuit not to be made change. Take pre-emptive action and hope that nothing further, legislative or corporate will be imposed.
As regards what constitutes a "vintage" jet, I suspect anything which is not with the colours of a national air arm, regardless of age will be "vintage" and anything which is still maintained by taxpayers won't be "vintage".
As for the measures themselves, most of the professional talking heads predicted the hi-z ban yesterday afternoon. I think it's unlikely to be totally rescinded. Hopefully Hunters will be back with us once the cause of Saturday's tragedy is caused and, if necessary, corrected. I also think we could be seeing some shows disappear, or be seriously curtailed and some new ones appear but... It remains to be seen.
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It now opens the debate as to what a 'vintage' jet is. Red Arrows Hawk T1s are all 1980 or before. On the UK and Ireland display circuit the only modern jet would be the Typhoon as most are a lot older.
I was just thinking the same.. Where do you draw that line?
Surely Vintage in this case refers to aircraft which have been retired from military service. There are still lots of Hawk T1s in RAF service, which are maintained to the highest standards by a very large engineering organisation.
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Last I heard, Hunters are still being maintained with OEM parts whereas RAF Tornados are flying with 3D-printed replacement parts as original items weren't available...
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Last I heard, Hunters are still being maintained with OEM parts whereas RAF Tornados are flying with 3D-printed replacement parts as original items weren't available...
What did you expect, logic? :-\
It's as much a justification issue as anything else. It's easier to make a case for displaying a service aircraft than it is to make a case for displaying someone's weekend runabout.
I've often thought that the RAF should expand the BBMF to a "Historic Flight" taking in a lot of the post war stars, but that's not really what the defence budget is for and if it comes from anywhere else, commercial/private operators will scream blue murder.. With some little justification. Besides, if the operated on BBMF principles they'd be low energy displays any way.
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The only 3d printed parts I know of on Tornado are a metal camera bracket and a protective radio cover. They have been produced by BAe as part of a cost reduction exercise.
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I think this is an over reaction by the CAA and is largely to appease the nimbi's.
I am in no way trivialising how terrible the accident was,and how dreadful it must be for the families of the dead and injured,but I still think the A27 road should have been closed to traffic or at least partly during the airshow.
People have said it wasn't`t feasible to close the road when the show was on,why not? It`s closed now,and diversions are going to be in place until late in this week as investigations continue.
Having a busy road open right beside an airshow is dangerous and irresponsible in my opinion,as there is a high risk of an accident through distraction to drivers and other road users.
Grounding the Hunter also seems like a step to far in my eyes;it`s basically vindicating some of the cries to stop vintage jets displaying.
Limiting aerobatic manoeuvres by vintage aircraft is something that has been discussed before,and I think in some ways its a sensible idea,if only for the fact that it would give spectators a better view of some displaying aircraft,it would also go some way to preventing stress on airframes.
I suppose the CAA`s hand has been forced in large part,but I think it would have been better to wait a few days at least to get a better understanding of what happened. :(
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Nobody tune into Radio 5 if you have high blood pressure. Some of the people on their phone-in are amazingly stupid.
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I agree that the road should probably have been closed due to it's proximity to the end of the runway.
Having said that, I cannot recall any airshows closing off roads around the airfield?
Even at Newcastle some years there would have been serious trouble if something were to go wrong. Same with Newtownards back in the day.
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On a different note regarding vintage jets I think the very best display I've seen of the Hunter was Miss Demeanour at Newcastle. Yes, some high energy moves but mostly love the close and slow passes the pilot gave with the cockpit window even open and then climbing out in the front of the crowd with a good roar. A great way to showcase the Hunter.
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I agree that the road should probably have been closed due to it's proximity to the end of the runway.
Having said that, I cannot recall any airshows closing off roads around the airfield?
Even at Newcastle some years there would have been serious trouble if something were to go wrong. Same with Newtownards back in the day.
The A21 Comber/ Newtownards carriageway was closed from the Moate Road junction on a few occasions when the airshow was on however can`t remember if this was every show ,Ards traffic was directed up towards Scrabo Golf Club,then along Scrabo Road down into the town.
Not sure if the Portaferry Road was ever closed during the show.
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Well, I have to say, much as I love to watch vintage jets perform, I prefer the sight and sound of vintage prop warbirds. I can't wait for 19th September when I'll be at Duxford for the Battle of Britain Anniversary Air Show.
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Red Arrows are only able to do flypasts at this weekends Dartmouth show after a review by the CAA. The new height restrictions over land would have made for impossible viewing of their display apparently. All RAF participation is also subject to CAA permissions.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/news/index.cfm?storyid=62E42933-5056-A318-A834938824887BB9
Red Arrows at Dartmouth Royal Regatta 2015
The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is undertaking a comprehensive review of civilian air displays in the UK.
As part of this, in the last 48 hours, the CAA has amended the display permissions for the Dartmouth Royal Regatta. This affects all participants including the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, the Red Arrows - scheduled to perform at the event tomorrow (Friday, August 28) at 1815.
It has been assessed that the required changes to display heights and positioning would have reduced the visual quality of the display for the public to an unacceptable level and therefore, with regret, the Red Arrows’ will not be conducting a full display at Dartmouth this year.
The Red Arrows recognise many people will have made plans and are looking forward to seeing the team perform. Not wanting to disappoint the public, the team will, instead, conduct two flypasts – not involving aerobatics – at the Dartmouth Royal Regatta, weather-permitting.
The decision does not affect the planned display at Clacton Airshow, scheduled for 1245 tomorrow (August 28).
All aspects of flying by the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team – wherever the Red Arrows are operating – is carried out subject to rigorous and well-established aviation safety rules.
News articles by date
Question - How is a civil board able to impose restrictions on Military displays? I thought these new restrictions only applied to civilian 'Vintage' jets?
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MAA regulations only apply to displays centred within MoD airspace e.g. RIAT at Fairford. Outside that everyone has to play by the CAA rules, even the military boys.
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/military-aviation-authority
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Strange picture for such a big organisation to post on the Shoreham anniversary
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Strange picture for such a big organisation to post on the Shoreham anniversary
Is that the A27 at Shoreham?
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/shoreham-high-court-judgement
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Final report into the accident will be out next friday at midday.
Shoreham air display accident investigation
The Air Accidents Investigation Branch will publish its final report at 1200hrs on Friday 3 March.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-on-the-shoreham-air-display-accident-investigation
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Seems like an awfully long time putting this together-obviously they have to get this right,but no more so than any other accident.
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From what I have heard a former Hunter pilot say, though it was a few months back, the AAIB have found nothing that will prevent the banning order on Hunters flying from being lifted when the report comes out. So it may well be put down to pilot error and not an aircraft issue.
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I think that pilot error was what most people thought,even very early on it seemded like the most likely cause.
He started his loop manoeuvre too low,didn`t get the required altitude to safely complete it,and the aircraft was doomed to crash.
I wouldn`t be so sure the CAA will lift all the restrictions-I get the feeling there are elements in the CAA that would rather not have ex-mil jets flying in the UK,especially in civvie hands.
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I think that pilot error was what most people thought,even very early on it seemded like the most likely cause.
He started his loop manoeuvre too low,didn`t get the required altitude to safely complete it,and the aircraft was doomed to crash.
I wouldn`t be so sure the CAA will lift all the restrictions-I get the feeling there are elements in the CAA that would rather not have ex-mil jets flying in the UK,especially in civvie hands.
The CAA won't admit that they were partially to blame for the crash in that they failed to provide proper oversight of civilian air displays. Then instead of addressing the problems their solution was to price air-shows out of existence >:(
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Final report is out, according to a brief headline on BBC - Pilot error and insufficient planning to protect the public by all parties lead to the crash. Looks like the pilot was too low, and too slow going into the start of the loop.
(Next bit taken from UKAR post - not my own)
The investigation identified the following causal factors in the accident:
•The aircraft did not achieve sufficient height at the apex of the accident manoeuvre to complete it before impacting the ground because the combination of low entry speed and low engine thrust in the upward half of the manoeuvre was insufficient.
•An escape manoeuvre was not carried out, despite the aircraft not achieving the required minimum apex height.
The following contributory factors were identified:
•The pilot either did not perceive that an escape manoeuvre was necessary, or did not realise that one was possible at the speed achieved at the apex of the manoeuvre.
•The pilot had not received formal training to escape from the accident manoeuvre in a Hunter and had not had his competence to do so assessed.
•The pilot had not practised the technique for escaping from the accident manoeuvre in a Hunter, and did not know the minimum speed from which an escape manoeuvre could be carried out successfully.
•A change of ground track during the manoeuvre positioned the aircraft further east than planned producing an exit track along the A27 dual carriageway.
•The manoeuvre took place above an area occupied by the public over which the organisers of the flying display had no control.
•The severity of the outcome was due to the absence of provisions to mitigate the effects of an aircraft crashing in an area outside the control of the organisers of the flying display.
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If you were reading about this for the first time and didn't know the backstory you'd be forgiven for thinking the pilot was a total amateur :o
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The last three points of the 'contributory factors' shouldn't be in that section, in my opinion; they didn't contribute to the accident occurring. The fact that the aircraft was over the A27 was orthogonal to the crash i.e. it would have hit the ground anyway.
Seems to me they've been included in that section so that they can be 'addressed' by upcoming regulations.
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Seems to me they've been included in that section so that they can be 'addressed' by upcoming regulations.
That's not in question. I would expect existing restrictions to remain if not, in fact, be broadened.
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Better watching an airshow on youtube from now on I suspect. The Outer Hebrides will really enjoy the show at Portrush mind you.