Northern Ireland Aviation Enthusiast's Forum
Military Aviation => Modern Military Aircraft => Topic started by: AERTANK on August 22, 2011, 01:03:46 PM
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As the topic title says, the UK Government has oredered 14 new Chinooks for the RAF in a £1Bn Government to Government deal, bringing the total CH-47 Chinooks in service or on order to 60!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14616028 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14616028)
While it's always good news to hear of new orders, I can't help but feel the UK Helicopter force could do with a few more Merlins or even a Batch of NH.90s instead of such a large noisy Chinook?
AERTANK
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The Merlin and NH.90 are medium lift helos while the Chinook is a heavy life helo. Yes the former can carry jeeps etc on to the battlefield as an underslung load but the Chinook can carry them internally and externally. I'd say it's better to have a heavy lift capability that can be down graded when needed to a medium lift than have a medium lift and therefore no heavy lift - hope this makes sense :)
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Didn't the RAF have a pile of Chinooks sitting in a warehouse somewhere that they couldn't fly because of "software issues"?
What happened to them?
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Those "Special Forces" HC.3s were a waste of money as they never worked, but theve have been and are being converted to a more traditional role! I understand what your saying Casper but I still feel there needs to be a balanced fleet of Medium and heavy lift capability, as has been proven in the past, as heavy lift helicopter can lift alot of resorces but then that's a lot of resorces to lose if one goes down! The Puma's provide a meaningful capability that needs a proper replacement with the manufacturing and skills bases being retained at home rather than buying it in, IMO.
AERTANK
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If you watched the top gear program about then using used army equipment to destroy a housing estate you would have seen them in a warehouse full of army equipment all for sale including harriers and lynx helicopters all air worthy and ready to fly just need put together but all for sale. chinooks are there but where not shown.
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The £1bn contract includes development, building and five years of support.
What development? Have the Chinooks not been in service for years, and years, and years? Are they talking about another variant?
Also looks like an awful lot of money for just 14 helos. Works out at approx. £71.5 million per helo. Take away approx £25 million per unit cost to buy that leaves approx £9 million per unit per year.
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I wouldn't describe them as "airworthy" if they need to be put together, there are many more airframes that are complete but not in an airworthy state because time perishable equipment/components need replacing before an airworthiness certificate could be achieved that's even before stringent EU regulations are met! I don't watch "Top Gear" as I try to avoid Political broadcasts! ;)
I agree with you Casper that it seems rather odd to include funds for development, but could this be a method of siphoning money off for other things? My reasoning behind wishing they'd purchase more Medium lift Helos is because there is a defined an immediate need for them in the Medium Lift/SAR role! The Pumas and Sea Kings urgently need replacing, the Army need a Battlefield Taxi too!
AERTANK
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My reasoning behind wishing they'd purchase more Medium lift Helos is because there is a defined an immediate need for them in the Medium Lift/SAR role! The Pumas and Sea Kings urgently need replacing, the Army need a Battlefield Taxi too!
Not only that, the Merlin is a cool aircraft ;D
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Yes Merlin, it is a "Cool" aircraft, and would be my choice of a new medium lift helo, with the NH.90 very close behind. I think the Chinook is too big a Helicopter for every mission, and as I understand it the US is working on a Larger replacement albeit in a similar configuration. The US Marines/Navy are also working on a scaled up CH-53E too and in these days of austerity I see these two programs coming together! Below is a Wiki-list of Medium lift Helos for comparison!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW101 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW101)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Cougar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Cougar)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH-148_Cyclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH-148_Cyclone)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHI_NH90 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHI_NH90)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-92)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-38 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-38)
and the CH-47
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook)
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As mentioned previously the batch of Chinooks that were bought almost 10 years ago are currently being rebuilt;they were bought for use by Special Ops and were dogged with problems in the aircraft`s software and wiring harnesses which didin`t like European weather. ::)
The storage facility shown in Top Gear was most likely RAF Shawbury were many airframes and other military kit are kept in deep storage but could be put to use fairly quickly should the need arise.
Only a small number of the aircraft ie Gazelle Helis are actually for sale.
I have seen Italian examples of the NH-90 in use by the Italian Army,and I was surprised how small and cramped the aircraft is;for my money the Merlin is a much more capable machine.
I have never been a big fan of the Chinook;true it makes a lovely noise,but it`s not terribly versitile and I think it`s becoming a bit of an old Hector.
I would like to see the MOD/RAF buy a European built aircraft rather than just being led by USA offerings,which are wildly expensive and often not the best option.
In these tough times I feel that countries should support their own industry.
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I totally agree with you Mr Turnip, apart from kit in deep storage being put to use fairly quickly! Also, while variants of the NH90 can seem rather "Tight", there is a High Cabin version, but the Merlin by virtue of it's in-flight refueling capability and greater home industry content would be the better choice!
AERTANK
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I totally agree with you Mr Turnip, apart from kit in deep storage being put to use fairly quickly! Also, while variants of the NH90 can seem rather "Tight", there is a High Cabin version, but the Merlin by virtue of it's in-flight refueling capability and greater home industry content would be the better choice!
Unfortunately while the Merlin has IFR capability, the RAF don't have a certified tanker aircraft that can refuel it in flight, although the new Voyager may have fixed this issue.
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I thought a few of the RAF's C-130s could act as a tanker, this conversion was done during the faklands conflict?
AERTRANK