EGAC - 02-04-09

[Dave]

Having attempted to clean my camera Sensor today, I decided to head to the City Airport although by this stage it was approaching evening and the sun was still shining. Anybody who spots at BHD will know that after 2.30pm, the normal spotting locations provide backlit shots which isn't good.

The only solution is to head to the opposite side of the airport, so me and a friend headed towards the end of runway 22 using Airport Road West. They were arriving on runway 22 today hence our decision to try there. We lasted half an hour there before heading off to Ikea for a quick snack and returning a while later for more spotting.

Soon after the Harbour police arrived and informed us that as we were spotting on private property that we would have to delete any photos we took of aircraft arriving into runway 22. Suspecting they might be right (we were standing just past the abandoned security gates) we proceeded to delete photos although they didn't seem too fussed about checking if we were actually deleting the photos or not thus I kept most of my shots. My friend unfortunately deleted all of his photos.

They were a friendly pair thankfully and mentioned that we should call up the Belfast Harbour Commissioners (02890554422) in the future for permission which should be easily granted. The gates remain open until 11pm which would be good for summer when the sun remains up all evening.

Having got through all that, most of my shots came out quite poorly, although thankfully not too many dust spots






The George Best livery aircraft, applied only to the Port side unfortunately.


The Star Alliance livery BMI aircraft.

[casper]

Very nice shots. There's a lot of debate about what the police can or can't do with regards photographers.

Security guards do not have stop and search powers or the right to seize your equipment or delete images or confiscate film under any circumstances. In some circumstances, the police may grab your film or memory cards but they are still not authorised to delete any images. After all, if you've committed an offence the images would act as evidence, and if you haven't broken the law, the images are innocent.

Taken from
http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-and-the-law.html

[Dave]

Very nice shots. There's a lot of debate about what the police can or can't do with regards photographers.

Security guards do not have stop and search powers or the right to seize your equipment or delete images or confiscate film under any circumstances. In some circumstances, the police may grab your film or memory cards but they are still not authorised to delete any images. After all, if you've committed an offence the images would act as evidence, and if you haven't broken the law, the images are innocent.

Taken from
http://www.urban75.org/photos/photographers-rights-and-the-law.html

Thanks Casper, It was my first time shooting with ISO 100, something I won't be trying again ISO 200 all the way in the future! Also I had a feeling we we be stopped by Police today given our location choice.

I have been reading and watching videos with regards to police actions with photographers with the link below a prime example of poor Police behaviour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjS9L5BVAl8

I was tempted to argue my case but I thought respecting their decisions would prove the better choice in the end, plus they were friendly enough which didn't make things too bad to be honest. Also I was thinking we might have been shooting on private property meaning we had no valid argument.

However from now on I will be getting permission from the Harbour Commissioners, just in case, although having said that, I didn't particularly like that area, too close to the runway centreline flight path. Next time moving down the road a bit will help.

Now if I had've been located at IKEA and the Police approached me, I think I may have been able to argue my case

[casper]

Also remember that if you delete your images and don't take any more you have a very very good chance of recovering them

[Dave]

Also remember that if you delete your images and don't take any more you have a very very good chance of recovering them

Interesting point, I suppose you have to send away your memory card? My friend who deleted his images actually ended up losing his card later on as we went to Tesco to print out some family shots of his, after which he lost his memory card.

I have followed up upon this spotting incident and have got in touch with the Harbour Commissioners and have some investigating, I recieved a helpful reply back from them.

Hello David

I have consulted with the relevant departments of Belfast Harbour
Commissioners and you are able to proceed with photographing the
aviation traffic from Airport Road West.  You should ensure that your
vehicle is not causing any obstructions when parked.

On the day you will be attending please contact Belfast Harbour Police
to make them aware that you are in the area and that you have
permission.  I would also advise that you consider a courtesy call to
the duty manager at Belfast City Airport to make them aware.

I hope this is of assistance.

Regards

William Hunter


Shouldn't be too much of a problem in the future after a quick call to the Harbour Police 

[casper]

I suppose you have to send away your memory card?

Nope Download this

http://www.pcinspector.de/Sites/file_recovery/info.htm?language=1

Can take a while to recover the files if it's a big card and it tends to name them file1, file2 etc.

[Dave]

Thanks Casper, I must give that a go some time! Could be handy in the future 

[vortex003]

Excellent pics!Some of the best ones yet

Regarding deleting of images - my camera is dual card (xD and CF),and as Casper has highlighted you are not obliged to delete your images - but if challenged i would simply switch to the blank xD card and there would be no pics to see

[Angry Turnip]

Not a good plan to argue with the Police-Harbour or otherwise,as long as you are on public property they cannot do anything except request that you move on.
If you politely tell them you are in a public place and you are just taking photos of the planes,there should be no problem.Just don`t loose your cool or get into an argument.

If you are on private property however they are entitled to tell you to move on-asking you to delete your images is a no-no however,unless they arrest you.

I had a run in once with an off duty Police officer a few years ago at BHD when I was taking pics from the bridge.
He really had a bee in his bonnet and demanded to see ID and took note of  my car reg-I told him he had no business asking to see ID or take my reg-I was in a public place,so I asked to see his ID.
I explained that I worked at Aldergrove and he became really stroppy,so I rang the Police and reported him!!!

A patrol came and told him to go away,and stop harassing me-the Harbour Police had seen him and they called the Police as well-they told him they knew who I was and they had no problem with me being there,so he had to apologise to me

[Dave]

Not a good plan to argue with the Police-Harbour or otherwise,as long as you are on public property they cannot do anything except request that you move on.
If you politely tell them you are in a public place and you are just taking photos of the planes,there should be no problem.Just don`t loose your cool or get into an argument.

When I said argue, I didn't actually mean argue, but like you say, politely point what I believe to be the law with regards to photos on publin ground. However I was unsure weather I was on Public or private property. Anyhow I was always expecting to have a run in with the police sooner or later, and I'm glad it happened with a nice bunch of officers.

I had a run in once with an off duty Police officer a few years ago at BHD when I was taking pics from the bridge.
He really had a bee in his bonnet and demanded to see ID and took note of  my car reg-I told him he had no business asking to see ID or take my reg-I was in a public place,so I asked to see his ID.
I explained that I worked at Aldergrove and he became really stroppy,so I rang the Police and reported him!!!

A patrol came and told him to go away,and stop harassing me-the Harbour Police had seen him and they called the Police as well-they told him they knew who I was and they had no problem with me being there,so he had to apologise to me

Crikey, thats pretty crazy. It's unfortunate that some officers (on or off duty), feel like they need to throw their weight around. I would be glad for the Harbour Police to take my details as they should be getting local spotters on their side to help keep an eye out for odd things. The sooner I'm known by the Harbour Police, the better (in a good way!)

[Mark]

Now if I had've been located at IKEA and the Police approached me, I think I may have been able to argue my case

Not so, as you would need to have the permission of IKEA to be there too
That said, I haven't seen anyone be approached for taking photos off the multi storey there.
Another good spot for 22 inbounds is the bottom B & Q car park before you reach the security gates at airport road west.

[Dave]

I suppose you have to send away your memory card?

Nope Download this

http://www.pcinspector.de/Sites/file_recovery/info.htm?language=1

Can take a while to recover the files if it's a big card and it tends to name them file1, file2 etc.

Right, just back from Duxford and Stansted, great trip until a dumb**s friend of mine jokingly alerted security personnel on the ramp that I was taking photos and they asked me to delete the shots I can taken while watching. Absolutely furious however now is the time to see if I can retreive the shots. Will give this a go!

The deleting of this one particular shot of the engine exhaust nozzle venting some condensation in the evening light as left me absolutely destroyed

[casper]

Some friend. Hopefully you will get them back.

[Dave]

Well... It worked! WOW is all I can say. I had lost all hope however that software has indeed retrieved them! The engine shot isn't as good as I thought it had been but still furious with the 'friend' for clowning around and thus not getting the opportunity to get a decent stab at the engine/condensation shot.

I had an awesome day, despite the dull weather at Duxford, I still got loads of photos so will get them edited.

Thanks again Casper! You have just remade my day!

[casper]

Thanks again Casper! You have just remade my day!

My pleasure

To understand how it works you have to realise that when you delete an image of the card you haven't actually deleted it just the pointer that tells the computer where it is on the card. A bit like removing a chapter number from the index of a book. The chapter is still there, you just don't know how to find it.
As long as you don't use the card again after the files have been deleted there is a very good change that they can be recovered.

Hope this all makes sense

[Dave]

Thanks again Casper! You have just remade my day!

My pleasure

To understand how it works you have to realise that when you delete an image of the card you haven't actually deleted it just the pointer that tells the computer where it is on the card. A bit like removing a chapter number from the index of a book. The chapter is still there, you just don't know how to find it.
As long as you don't use the card again after the files have been deleted there is a very good change that they can be recovered.

Hope this all makes sense

I was aware that was the situation for computer hard drives but was not aware it was the same for memory cards. The software was a tad hard to use but after clicking here and there, the 3 deleted images popped up so they have been resaved now!

Here was the picture I was talking about;



Not as great as I had seen it/imagined it in the quick second I saw it before deletion but I am very glad to have it back. The condensation isn't too clear but ah well

Thanks again!