Hawker Hunter crash at Shoreham

[jasT1981]

Hunters all grounded. Vintage jets no longer allowed to do aerobatic stunts and restricted to flypasts when over land. This shouldn't affect Portrush as it is over the sea.

Civil Aviation Authority announces series of immediate restrictions and changes to UK civil air displays

Aviation regulator the CAA has announced that flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until former notice, and that no further flights are to be made by Hawker Hunter aircraft for a temporary period of time. In a statement, the CAA said:

The thoughts of everyone at the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) remain with all of those affected by the tragic accident at the Shoreham Air Show on Saturday 22 August.

Following the accident we immediately began an urgent review and have, today, announced a series of immediate restrictions and changes to UK civil air displays.

• As a precaution, on Saturday 22 August we took steps to ensure no further flights were made by Hawker Hunter aircraft - this temporary restriction remains in place.

• Flying displays over land by vintage jet aircraft will be significantly restricted until further notice. They will be limited to flypasts, which means ‘high energy’ aerobatics will not be permitted.

• The CAA will conduct additional risk assessments on all forthcoming civil air displays to establish if additional measures should be introduced.

• We commenced a full review of civil air display safety yesterday and held an initial meeting this morning.

The safety standards that must be met by all major civil air displays in the UK are among the very highest in the world and are regularly reviewed. All air display arrangements, including the pilots and aircraft, must meet rigorous safety requirements. Individual display pilots are only granted approval following a thorough test of their abilities.

The CAA will continue to offer every assistance to the Air Accidents Investigation Branch as it seeks to establish the cause of the accident. The CAA will also act promptly in response to any emerging indications from the AAIB’s investigation.

Further details will be provided in the coming days. The CAA said it will continue to work with the industry to ensure “the most appropriate action” is taken as a result of its review.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2015/aug/24/shoreham-airshow-disaster-police-fear-death-toll-could-rise-latest-updates

[smudge]

Well perhaps it's a blessing that this is the Vulcan's last season.  Airshows in Britain are going to be very, very boring from this point forth.

[jasT1981]

It now opens the debate as to what a 'vintage' jet is. Red Arrows Hawk T1s are all 1980 or before. On the UK and Ireland display circuit the only modern jet would be the Typhoon as most are a lot older.

[jasT1981]

Well perhaps it's a blessing that this is the Vulcan's last season.  Airshows in Britain are going to be very, very boring from this point forth.

I don't think the Vulcan would be affected so much, while it does a great display, there are very few 'High energy' aerobatics. At most it does a wing over but mostly is flying up and down and at a far less tempo than the likes of the Hunter and Reds etc

[greglloyd]

It now opens the debate as to what a 'vintage' jet is. Red Arrows Hawk T1s are all 1980 or before. On the UK and Ireland display circuit the only modern jet would be the Typhoon as most are a lot older.

I was just thinking the same.. Where do you draw that line?

[greglloyd]

re: The Reds

I would prefer the Hawks replaced. I was watching a Blue Angels display on YouTube and the sound and presence of 6 x F-18's (includes the two synchro) was impressive.

Alas we will probably not see them replaced. Rather they (as a team) will just be discontinued when the times comes to replace :-(

[smudge]

EASA definition of 'vintage' used to be:

1. Designed prior to 1955

AND

2. Construction ceased prior to 1975

Not sure if this is a rolling-window or fixed dates.  Google not being helpful today.

[52POSTROC]

What have they classified as a 'vintage jet'? Modern planes go wrong too.

[Sneaky_Nikon]

Damage limitation.   As I said over the weekend, you don't kill a clart of totally unconnected people and expect your sport/entertainment pursuit not to be made change. Take pre-emptive action and hope that nothing further, legislative or corporate will be imposed.

As regards what constitutes a "vintage" jet, I suspect anything which is not with the colours of a national air arm, regardless of age will be "vintage"  and anything which is still maintained by taxpayers won't be "vintage". 

As for the measures themselves, most of the professional talking heads predicted the hi-z ban yesterday afternoon. I think it's unlikely to be totally rescinded.  Hopefully Hunters will be back with us once the cause of Saturday's tragedy is caused and, if necessary, corrected.  I also think we could be seeing some shows disappear, or be seriously curtailed and some new ones appear but... It remains to be seen.

[viking9]

It now opens the debate as to what a 'vintage' jet is. Red Arrows Hawk T1s are all 1980 or before. On the UK and Ireland display circuit the only modern jet would be the Typhoon as most are a lot older.

I was just thinking the same.. Where do you draw that line?

Surely Vintage in this case refers to aircraft which have been retired from military service.  There are still lots of Hawk T1s in RAF service, which are maintained to the highest standards by a very large engineering organisation.

[smudge]

Last I heard, Hunters are still being maintained with OEM parts whereas RAF Tornados are flying with 3D-printed replacement parts as original items weren't available...

[Sneaky_Nikon]

Last I heard, Hunters are still being maintained with OEM parts whereas RAF Tornados are flying with 3D-printed replacement parts as original items weren't available...

What did you expect, logic?   

It's as much a justification issue as anything else. It's easier to make a case for displaying a service aircraft than it is to make a case for displaying someone's weekend runabout.

I've often thought that the RAF should expand the BBMF to a "Historic Flight" taking in a lot of the post war stars, but that's not really what the defence budget is for and if it comes from anywhere else, commercial/private operators will scream blue murder.. With some little justification.  Besides, if the operated on BBMF principles they'd be low energy displays any way.

[viking9]

The only 3d printed parts I know of on Tornado are a metal camera bracket and a protective radio cover. They have been produced by BAe as part of a cost reduction exercise.

[Angry Turnip]

I think this is an over reaction by the CAA and is largely to appease the nimbi's.

I am in no way trivialising how terrible the accident was,and how dreadful it must be for the families of the dead and injured,but I still think the A27 road should have been closed to traffic or at least partly during the airshow.
People have said it wasn't`t feasible to close the road when the show was on,why not? It`s closed now,and diversions are going to be in place until late in this week as investigations continue.
Having a busy road open right beside an airshow is dangerous and irresponsible in my opinion,as there is a high risk of an accident through distraction to drivers and other road users.

Grounding the Hunter also seems like a step to far in my eyes;it`s basically vindicating some of the cries to stop vintage jets displaying.
Limiting aerobatic manoeuvres by vintage aircraft is something that has been discussed before,and I think in some ways its a sensible idea,if only for the fact that it would give spectators a better view of some displaying aircraft,it would also go some way to preventing stress on airframes.

I suppose the CAA`s hand has been forced in large part,but I think it would have been better to wait a few days at least to get a better understanding of what happened.

[52POSTROC]

Nobody tune into Radio 5 if you have high blood pressure. Some of the people on their phone-in are amazingly stupid.

[greglloyd]

I agree that the road should probably have been closed due to it's proximity to the end of the runway.

Having said that, I cannot recall any airshows closing off roads around the airfield?

Even at Newcastle some years there would have been serious trouble if something were to go wrong. Same with Newtownards back in the day.

[greglloyd]

On a different note regarding vintage jets I think the very best display I've seen of the Hunter was Miss Demeanour at Newcastle. Yes, some high energy moves but mostly love the close and slow passes the pilot gave with the cockpit window even open and then climbing out in the front of the crowd with a good roar. A great way to showcase the Hunter.

[Angry Turnip]

I agree that the road should probably have been closed due to it's proximity to the end of the runway.

Having said that, I cannot recall any airshows closing off roads around the airfield?

Even at Newcastle some years there would have been serious trouble if something were to go wrong. Same with Newtownards back in the day.

The A21 Comber/ Newtownards carriageway was closed from the Moate Road junction on a few occasions when the airshow was on however can`t remember if this was every show ,Ards traffic was directed up towards Scrabo Golf Club,then along Scrabo Road down into the town.
Not sure if the Portaferry Road was ever closed during the show.

[viking9]

Well, I have  to say, much as I love to watch vintage jets perform, I prefer the sight and sound of vintage prop warbirds. I can't wait for 19th September when I'll be at Duxford for the Battle of Britain Anniversary Air Show.

[jasT1981]

Red Arrows are only able to do flypasts at this weekends Dartmouth show after a review by the CAA. The new height restrictions over land would have made for impossible viewing of their display apparently. All RAF participation is also subject to CAA permissions.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/news/index.cfm?storyid=62E42933-5056-A318-A834938824887BB9

Red Arrows at Dartmouth Royal Regatta 2015

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is undertaking a comprehensive review of civilian air displays in the UK.

As part of this, in the last 48 hours, the CAA has amended the display permissions for the Dartmouth Royal Regatta. This affects all participants including the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, the Red Arrows - scheduled to perform at the event tomorrow (Friday, August 28) at 1815.

It has been assessed that the required changes to display heights and positioning would have reduced the visual quality of the display for the public to an unacceptable level and therefore, with regret, the Red Arrows’ will not be conducting a full display at Dartmouth this year.

The Red Arrows recognise many people will have made plans and are looking forward to seeing the team perform. Not wanting to disappoint the public, the team will, instead, conduct two flypasts – not involving aerobatics – at the Dartmouth Royal Regatta, weather-permitting.

The decision does not affect the planned display at Clacton Airshow, scheduled for 1245 tomorrow (August 28).

All aspects of flying by the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team – wherever the Red Arrows are operating – is carried out subject to rigorous and well-established aviation safety rules.

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Question - How is a civil board able to impose restrictions on Military displays? I thought these new restrictions only applied to civilian 'Vintage' jets?

[smudge]

MAA regulations only apply to displays centred within MoD airspace e.g. RIAT at Fairford.  Outside that everyone has to play by the CAA rules, even the military boys.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/military-aviation-authority

[Tango Tango Fanta]

Strange picture for such a big organisation to post on the Shoreham anniversary

[attachment deleted by admin]

[viking9]

Strange picture for such a big organisation to post on the Shoreham anniversary

Is that the A27 at Shoreham?

[Sneaky_Nikon]

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/shoreham-high-court-judgement

[jasT1981]

Final report into the accident will be out next friday at midday.

Shoreham air display accident investigation


The Air Accidents Investigation Branch will publish its final report at 1200hrs on Friday 3 March.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-on-the-shoreham-air-display-accident-investigation