Goodbye Harrier?

[Tango Tango Fanta]

Looks like the Harrier is getting the chop - "It means that, until at least 2019, Britain will not have the ability to launch fighter jets at sea." (BBC)

[casper]

I tell you all governments are idiots. Who else would scrap something when its replacement isn't ready.

[Steve7]

HMS Ark Royal as well! 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11570593

'The Ark Royal, launched in 1985, will be decommissioned almost immediately, rather than in 2014, as previously planned.

Some squadrons of RAF Tornado jets will be saved - although some air force bases will close.' - BBC.

[RNASMU]

I tell you all governments are idiots. Who else would scrap something when its replacement isn't ready.

This is absolute madness, just watch the Argies now retake the Falklands 

[Angry Turnip]

This news is absolutely ridiculous-the UK government are idiots to retire the Ark Royal and the Joint Harrier Force.
 
The Harrier is much better suited to ground attack,than the Typhoon and that is where the modern conflict`s are being fought.
 
I dispair at the government for retiring much needed resources earlier than planned-forces in Afghanistan are all ready well over stretched and these crazy decisions are going to cost lives.
 
As Casper says the replacement aircraft and carriers aren`t ready yet,so what the hell are they going to use in the meantime?
We are talking a minimum of 10 years before the new carriers will be ready.
 
The VTOL JSF F-35 Lightning II that is to replace the Harrier is a white elephant,too expensive,too complex,and it will almost certainly be late in service;also it is an unproven design.
 
The Harrier is a proven combat platform,and building new Harrier aircraft would be much cheaper than buying JSF.
 
Cameron and his teaboy have lost the plot entirely.
 

[casper]

The Harrier is a proven combat platform,and building new Harrier aircraft would be much cheaper than buying JSF.

Totally agree. The unit cost for a Harrier is around $35 million wereas a F-35 is $96 million. Nearly 3 for the price of one, and as you have said battle proven and less complex. I sure the F-35 can't take the same punishment as the Harrier and still make it home.

[Causeway74]

Really is a joke this. Gutted to see the end of the Harrier. That is no more Harriers or F3s now. Sad.

Also sad to see Kinloss close. It's all a mess.

[casper]

Was just about to post the news about Kinloss

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-11565829

[Angry Turnip]

The Nimrod MR4A`s are also getting the chop before they even enter service
How many millions has been spent on developing those aircraft.
 
That leaves the RAF/RN with:
 
NO Long range Maritime/Recon/Rescue patrol aircraft.
NO Long range Recon/Survillance aircraft.
NO Close Air Support Jet aircraft
 
All the years of expierence with the Harrier and it`s VTOL capability will be lost by the time the F-35 enters service.
 
UK Forces in Afghanistan are crying out for close air support from the Joint Harrier Force because the US cannot provide it and if they do,they often attack friendly targets.
 
What a mess the UK Armed Forces are going to be in.I despair;I really do.
 
 

[casper]

And to cap it all they're going to build two carriers but only one of them will enter service. To think we pay these ministers wages.

[ww2ni]

Madness.
And I wonder what the personel in places like Afghanistan are thinking about this when they are already stretched to the limit???

[casper]

Some interesting reading here on how bloated the MOD is.

http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_story.asp?id=10773

[greglloyd]

Big mistake by the government to retire the Harrier. As mentioned before, it's an excellent aircraft to use for close air support / ground attack.

As has been demonstrated in recent wars, the maximum blow has come from air attack. The UK now leaves itself impotent on a global scale with no capability to sail a carrier to any location and deploy a decisive blow with air power.

Unfortunately it's just the way the country is going as a whole it seems. Expensive to live in with a poor return on high taxes.

[deemay]

Sad news all round, but this is not the whole story, there are more axes, that have been not been publicly announced yet, but may come apparent soon, I can't say at the moment, as it is confidential. One of these axes will be a shock methinks :-(

[Merlin]

Sad news all round, but this is not the whole story, there are more axes, that have been not been publicly announced yet, but may come apparent soon, I can't say at the moment, as it is confidential. One of these axes will be a shock methinks :-(

Haven't commented on this thread before now as I've been too busy stewing 

Who the heck is running the MoD these days, The Three Stooges?

The idea of building an aircraft carrier which'll have no aircraft is so ridiculous its... I can't think of a word to describe it.

With all the idiotic decisions that have been made already its hard to think what else they could do that would be more shocking.

But whatever it is I'm sure it'll be good 

I wait in anticipation 

[Angry Turnip]

Regarding the MR4A Nimrod-I have read that the programme cost over £3Billion
 
It beggars belief that our government could pull the plug after spending that sort of money-The MR4A was due to begin entering service early next year,but I believe that 4 RC-135 Rivet Joint aircraft are to be bought/leased instead.
 
We all know that US military aircraft don`t like our weather,and those aircraft will probably stripped of everything to fit UK made kit,then sit in a hanger or two somewhere for 10 years and never fly.
 
If the government need to cut back,why don`t they revert to direct rule?
These devolved assemblies we have here and Scotland and Wales are a total waste of money.

[Hammerhead]

Im really glad that I got to see what was probably the last RAF Harrier display at RIAT last year. Looking at the propsed cutback figures its looking like the RAF will be loosing about one third of its front-line fast jet force...

Not my figures...

BEFORE ANNOUNCEMENT
Current Strength:-
Tornado GR.4 - 133
Typhoon - 82 (Approx)
Harrier - 67
TOTAL - 282

Proposed Future Strength:-
Typhoon - 232
F-35B - 138
TOTAL - 370


AFTER ANNOUNCEMENT
Current/Near Term Strength:-
Typhoon - 82 (Approx)
Tornado GR.4 - 80
TOTAL - 162

Future Strength:-
Typhoon - 160
F-35C - 60 (most likely further reduced)
TOTAL - 220

   

[casper]

In order to meet this new structure the Royal Air Force will:
• reduce by around 5,000 personnel to about 33,000 by 2015,   and with an assumption, for now, of a requirement of about 31,500 by   2020;
• withdraw the C-130 Hercules transport fleet ten years earlier   than planned as we transition to the more capable and larger A400M;
• withdraw the Sentinel surveillance aircraft once it is no longer required to support operations in Afghanistan;
• rationalise the RAF estate;
• retain Tornados, which will continue to operate in Afghanistan;
•   remove Harrier from service in the transition to a future fast jet   force of Typhoon and JSF. This will mean a gap for carrier fast jet   operations. JSF, like Harrier, will be operated jointly by RAF and Royal   Navy pilots;
• not bring into service the Nimrod MRA4; and
•   withdraw VC-10 and the three variants of TriStar aircraft from 2013 as   we transition towards the more capable A330 future strategic transport   and tanker aircraft.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/DefencePolicyAndBusiness/StrategicDefenceAndSecurityReviewPublished.htm

[Merlin]

Im really glad that I got to see what was probably the last RAF Harrier display at RIAT last year. Looking at the propsed cutback figures its looking like the RAF will be loosing about one third of its front-line fast jet force...

Not my figures...

BEFORE ANNOUNCEMENT
Current Strength:-
Tornado GR.4 - 133
Typhoon - 82 (Approx)
Harrier - 67
TOTAL - 282

Proposed Future Strength:-
Typhoon - 232
F-35B - 138
TOTAL - 370


AFTER ANNOUNCEMENT
Current/Near Term Strength:-
Typhoon - 82 (Approx)
Tornado GR.4 - 80
TOTAL - 162

Future Strength:-
Typhoon - 160
F-35C - 60 (most likely further reduced)
TOTAL - 220

   

The slashing of the number of Typhoons certainly stands out, 232 down to 160 

Having said that 60 F-35C's should be enough to protect us if we ever go to war with San Marino, or Iceland or Switzerland.

When it comes to power projection the government has this stupid notion of doing more with less 

Unfortunately the folly of that strategy won't be proven until a crisis is on top of them.