What used dslr

[hardguy007]

Hi. Never had one before. Have a couple of (old in today's age) decent Olympus digital cameras but not dslr. Not experienced but looking for recommendations. I've wanted one for a few years but always talked myself out of it. Not looking or expecting bells and whistles camera but something decent, even if a few years old. Basically I'm in Iceland at the minute and was seeing if i could adjust the shutter speed in any way on this wee basic camera I have to capture the northern lights. Anyway tours were all cancelled the past few days but next time I come back I'd want to be better prepared. I have a canon in my head but open to any recommendations.

Thanks,

James

[ww2ni]

Hi James,
I was in the same frame of mind a couple of years ago.
Had various cameras and wanted to update to a good quality camera but not spend a fortune if I am not going to get the use of it.
I went for a Bridge Camera - Nikon P510.
Cracking camera with a Times 42 Optical Zoom.

Andy

[breney]

Canon EOS 1000D. Any canon DSLR made in the last few years basically. What matters most is what lens you put on the front of it. The kit lens isn't great, especially for the northern lights. I would recommend you buy a cheap used canon dslr, and look at buying a decent lens. I'd personally recommend the Tamron 17-50 f2.8. A staggeringly good lens, which you can pick up used pretty cheap.

[Angry Turnip]

You don`t have to go for a Canon DSLR,many good Nikon`s out there too,which are just as good as Canon-I have used both brands in the past-Canon are probably easier to get 2nd hand,and more lenses about.

Like anything,try and get as much as you can for your money.
Try www.dpreview.com or similar for more info on cameras and lenses.

[breney]

You don`t have to go for a Canon DSLR,many good Nikon`s out there too,which are just as good as Canon-I have used both brands in the past-Canon are probably easier to get 2nd hand,and more lenses about.

Like anything,try and get as much as you can for your money.
Try www.dpreview.com or similar for more info on cameras and lenses.

What is this blasphemy you speak of! Nikon?!

[Sneaky_Nikon]

What is this blasphemy you speak of! Nikon?!

I went with Nikon because the place I was living/working at the time used them exclusively, on reflection it might not have been the best idea.

Too much investment in glass now to change though.

[Angry Turnip]

You don`t have to go for a Canon DSLR,many good Nikon`s out there too,which are just as good as Canon-I have used both brands in the past-Canon are probably easier to get 2nd hand,and more lenses about.

Like anything,try and get as much as you can for your money.
Try www.dpreview.com or similar for more info on cameras and lenses.

What is this blasphemy you speak of! Nikon?!

Blasphemy? Just stirring the pot-tee hee!

Seriously though,I do prefer Nikon,but the controls took a bit of getting used to after using Canon gear for years.
I am not very brand loyal,and tend to use what works best for me.
I had some serious problems with my Canon 7d,it was great for a while,then it took sick,and was back and forward to Canon and the problems (poor focus) could not be resolved,so I tried the Nikon 7100 and was most impressed.

I know some folk think using Nikon is going to the Dark Side-

[hardguy007]

How does this look?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-1000D-Rebel-XS-10-1-MP-Digital-SLR-Camera-Black-w-EF-S-18-55-/321963929369?hash=item4af68baf19:g:WEMAAOSwa-dWhorF

[Angry Turnip]

How does this look?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-1000D-Rebel-XS-10-1-MP-Digital-SLR-Camera-Black-w-EF-S-18-55-/321963929369?hash=item4af68baf19:g:WEMAAOSwa-dWhorF

Tamaron produce a good range of quality lenses to suit different mounts,but I would suggest you decide what type of camera you want to go for first,as that will dictate what fittment of lens you buy.
Canon,Nikon,Sony etc use different lens mounts on there camera`s and they aren`t compatible with each other,but perhaps you already know that.

If you can find a lens with some sort of Vibration Control-it`s a useful anti-shake function (look for VC,VR,or IS) and is a big help to reduce camera shake.
They tend to cost a bit more,but it`s a very useful feature to have for hand held shots.

[hardguy007]

Made a mistake there, edited the post yo shoe this link for the camera

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Canon-EOS-1000D-Rebel-XS-10-1-MP-Digital-SLR-Camera-Black-w-EF-S-18-55-/321963929369?hash=item4af68baf19:g:WEMAAOSwa-dWhorF

[Angry Turnip]

Good enough camera,but fixed price is a little high-also body has a fair bit of wear on it-ideally if a camera has been properly looked after it should be almost mint condition-well that`s my 2p`s worth.
Good luck with your quest.

[hardguy007]

What other models should I be looking at, nothing too expensive

[viking9]

Have a look at the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ200 Bridge Camera. It has a Leica DC Vario-Elmarit f/2.8 24x optical zoom lens with a focal length of 25mm to 600mm which offers a huge shooting range with a high speed, bright aperture that is available throughout the entire focal range. It is much lighter than a DSLR and can certainly perform as well as or better than most of the mid-range ones. I replaced a Canon 7D and 100-400 lens - plus lots of other lenses - with one of these a couple of years ago and it has proved excellent for everything from landscapes to fast jets.

Have a look here at the specs: https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-digital-cameras---point-and-shoot/bridge-cameras/dmc-fz200eb.html

[hardguy007]

Ive a feeling I'm over complicating this. I've a fujifilm s4300 at the minute which would be similar to the Panasonic and will prob do anything I need. I just took it out there for the first time in over a year and had forgot the extent of the settings available. Ive only ever taken a handful of decent shots with it as I had problems with focus and then the delay between pressing the shutter button and the photo being taken but this is down to me as the camera is working fine.

Would a dslr be any easier to use? Would it have more/less settings? My thinking is that a dslr won't bring me any advantages at the minute as I've little idea of how to use this camera. Would I be correct in saying that?

Regardless of what I do I think I'd be best get on a simple photography course to learn how to use this or any camera. So next question is are there any local courses in the Ballymoney area or where would be best to search.?

Thoughts???

[breney]

If you're interested in a used DSLR, MPB photographic is a good place to look at

[smudge]

If you're interested in a used DSLR, MPB photographic is a good place to look at

^^ As he says.  They can be a bit pricier than eBay but having bought and sold kit through them over the years they have proved reliable and friendly.  They describe the second-hand gear honestly.

Ffordes are also good but cater to a different market segment.

[viking9]

Ive a feeling I'm over complicating this. I've a fujifilm s4300 at the minute which would be similar to the Panasonic and will prob do anything I need.

I agree with you. Whilst not among the top bridge cameras available today, your S4300 has a pretty good spec except for one thing which lets it down - its CCD sensor. This starts to introduce noise above ISO 200 (sensitivity setting), leading to poor quality pictures. When using the camera on 'Auto' it requires a lot of light to get good photos and videos. So you will certainly get better photos if you learn how to use its manual controls in order to get good photos in less than idea lighting.

Do you have the camera's manual? If you do, use it to experiment with various settings to see just what it can do. If you have lost it you can download one here: http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/manuals/pdf/index/s/finepix_s4200-s4500_manual_en.pdf

You can also find free courses online. The main thing is to keep your camera with you and take photos of everything and anything. Try various settings of shutter speed (S) and aperture (A), keeping the ISO at 200 or below. Then when you look at the results you can check the EXIF information to see which settings produce the best results.

Do you have the software supplied with the camera? If not you can download it. The reason I mention this is because many less than ideal photos can be brought to an acceptable standard with a little bit of correction. It never fails to disappoint me when I see a photo published on Flicker which is underexposed, often with the excuse that the light was poor. Aircraft photographers seem to be the worst offenders. Admittedly, taking pictures of dull military aircraft on dull days is often difficult but when a gloss white aircraft looks grey it's usually due to underexposure. Even then you can run the picture through software to correct it. This usually requires just a slight adjustment of the 'Levels' or 'Curves' control. This can all be learned online.

Would a DSLR give you better pictures? In my opinion, probably not.

[breney]

Ive a feeling I'm over complicating this. I've a fujifilm s4300 at the minute which would be similar to the Panasonic and will prob do anything I need.

I agree with you. Whilst not among the top bridge cameras available today, your S4300 has a pretty good spec except for one thing which lets it down - its CCD sensor. This starts to introduce noise above ISO 200 (sensitivity setting), leading to poor quality pictures. When using the camera on 'Auto' it requires a lot of light to get good photos and videos. So you will certainly get better photos if you learn how to use its manual controls in order to get good photos in less than idea lighting.

Do you have the camera's manual? If you do, use it to experiment with various settings to see just what it can do. If you have lost it you can download one here: http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/manuals/pdf/index/s/finepix_s4200-s4500_manual_en.pdf

You can also find free courses online. The main thing is to keep your camera with you and take photos of everything and anything. Try various settings of shutter speed (S) and aperture (A), keeping the ISO at 200 or below. Then when you look at the results you can check the EXIF information to see which settings produce the best results.

Do you have the software supplied with the camera? If not you can download it. The reason I mention this is because many less than ideal photos can be brought to an acceptable standard with a little bit of correction. It never fails to disappoint me when I see a photo published on Flicker which is underexposed, often with the excuse that the light was poor. Aircraft photographers seem to be the worst offenders. Admittedly, taking pictures of dull military aircraft on dull days is often difficult but when a gloss white aircraft looks grey it's usually due to underexposure. Even then you can run the picture through software to correct it. This usually requires just a slight adjustment of the 'Levels' or 'Curves' control. This can all be learned online.

Would a DSLR give you better pictures? In my opinion, probably not.

I beg to differ. A DSLR has a much larger sensor, and the ability to perform at much higher ISO. It will definitely help in the situation you describe with the dull aircraft dull day. The ability to stick on a larger lens, with a wider max aperture will help, as well as the ability to fit something longer to get in closer to an aircraft. If he is in anyway serious about his photos, he should be looking at moving to a DSLR

[viking9]

I beg to differ. A DSLR has a much larger sensor, and the ability to perform at much higher ISO. It will definitely help in the situation you describe with the dull aircraft dull day. The ability to stick on a larger lens, with a wider max aperture will help, as well as the ability to fit something longer to get in closer to an aircraft. If he is in anyway serious about his photos, he should be looking at moving to a DSLR

My answeer was based on what he wrote.

Of course a DSLR will give better quality photos providing it is used properly. Lots of DSLRs from Canon and Nikon overexpose or underexpose in 'Auto', so until he learns to use the controls he'll be wasting his money. I've seen some pretty awful aircraft photos taken with some of the top of the range consumer DSLRs. Just have a look through Flickr.

[breney]

I beg to differ. A DSLR has a much larger sensor, and the ability to perform at much higher ISO. It will definitely help in the situation you describe with the dull aircraft dull day. The ability to stick on a larger lens, with a wider max aperture will help, as well as the ability to fit something longer to get in closer to an aircraft. If he is in anyway serious about his photos, he should be looking at moving to a DSLR

My answeer was based on what he wrote.

Of course a DSLR will give better quality photos providing it is used properly. Lots of DSLRs from Canon and Nikon overexpose or underexpose in 'Auto', so until he learns to use the controls he'll be wasting his money. I've seen some pretty awful aircraft photos taken with some of the top of the range consumer DSLRs. Just have a look through Flickr.

And it's not difficult for him to learn to use exposure compensation. But he has to have the tools to learn it on. No point learning it on a bridge, then going to a DSLR and not being familiar with the way he learned

[viking9]

And it's not difficult for him to learn to use exposure compensation. But he has to have the tools to learn it on. No point learning it on a bridge, then going to a DSLR and not being familiar with the way he learned

I wasn't  looking for an argument,  merely trying to help the guy without him spending lots of money and getting poor results, so your comment about begging to differ with me is inappropriate.

Whether you beg to differ with my advice is of no interest to me ,  I based my advice on the poster's last post and my long experience as an enthusiasstic amateur. I have been using digital cameras since my first Kodak DC210 in 1998 through most of  the Canon range of consumer DSLR ending with the EOS 7D and a range of lenses including the EF 100-400  IS USM. A couple of years ago the osteoarthritis in my hands and chronic back strain from a heavy landing made it difficult for me to keep a large DSLR and long lens raised for more than a few minutes without incurring serious pain so I bought a Panasonic FZ150. I attended an air show at Duxford soon after and was pleasantly surprised with the results so I decided to sell the EOS 7D and accessories which realised over £3000.

I later bought the FZ200 and now have the FZ1000 as well as some other Bridge cameras.  As an enthusiastic and experienced amateur I believe there is no need to buy a DSLR as price for price most bridge cameras have all of the features of consumer DSLRs and some have more. However, they all just need the same basic principles to operate them. Many of the bridge cameras, whilst haviing super zoom  lenses built in - the FZ200 has an f2.8 aperture right up to 600mm equivalent (what cost to cover that in an add-on) also have the advantage of being mirrorless with both mechanical and electronic shutters, the latter giving tremendously fast shutter speeds and burst rates. They also have OIS built in. Larger, backlit sensors are being introduced - the FZ1000 has a 1" one which is certainly capable of IQ up to the standard of most of the APS-C sensors in DSLRs of a similar price.

Menus and controls differ between different manufacturers, whether DSLR, Bridge or Compact, and between different models from the same manufacturer, but the same basic picture taking rules that I learned with film cameras apply to them all.

[Dave]

Ive a feeling I'm over complicating this. I've a fujifilm s4300 at the minute which would be similar to the Panasonic and will prob do anything I need. I just took it out there for the first time in over a year and had forgot the extent of the settings available. Ive only ever taken a handful of decent shots with it as I had problems with focus and then the delay between pressing the shutter button and the photo being taken but this is down to me as the camera is working fine.

Would a dslr be any easier to use? Would it have more/less settings? My thinking is that a dslr won't bring me any advantages at the minute as I've little idea of how to use this camera. Would I be correct in saying that?

Regardless of what I do I think I'd be best get on a simple photography course to learn how to use this or any camera. So next question is are there any local courses in the Ballymoney area or where would be best to search.?

Thoughts???

Given what you are describing here, I do think a dSLR may be a good direction to go in. Adjusting settings on a dSLR is a lot easier, adjusting shutter speed or exposure can be just the rotation of a dial.

The delay between focusing and capturing an image is non existent with a dSLR. As soon as you press the shutter button, the image is taken instantly. Focusing is also very simple and fast with the half press of the shutter button.

One thing to consider with bridge cameras (and somebody may correct me if I'm wrong), you use the zoom function with your right finger, then using the same finger you then hit the shutter button. This makes it hard to take images whilst zooming, meaning capturing moving objects such as planes and cars can perhaps be a bit troublesome. With an dSLR, you zoom with the left hand by twisting the lens whilst holding the camera with our right hand... making composing images of moving objects a lot easier.

[viking9]

Given what you are describing here, I do think a dSLR may be a good direction to go in. Adjusting settings on a dSLR is a lot easier, adjusting shutter speed or exposure can be just the rotation of a dial.

Not true, my three bridge cameras all have a dial to set aperture, shutter speed and exposure compensation. All of them also have a cruciform switch on the right back of the camera to set such things as Flash, ISO, WB and AF/Macro. In addition they all have several programmable function buttons. In other words they handle just like a DSLR.

The delay between focusing and capturing an image is non existent with a dSLR. As soon as you press the shutter button, the image is taken instantly.

There must be some DSLR users on here saying "I wish". The lag between final press to the picture taken varies over a range of DSLRs. Some of the lower priced ones can be dire.

Focusing is also very simple and fast with the half press of the shutter button.

You obviously haven't used many DSLR's. Read the reviews - many are slower than bridge cameras of similar price because the focussing system of a built in lens can be faster than an add-on one.

One thing to consider with bridge cameras (and somebody may correct me if I'm wrong), you use the zoom function with your right finger, then using the same finger you then hit the shutter button. This makes it hard to take images whilst zooming, meaning capturing moving objects such as planes and cars can perhaps be a bit troublesome.With an dSLR, you zoom with the left hand by twisting the lens whilst holding the camera with our right hand... making composing images of moving objects a lot easier.

Well you are partly correct in that all bridge cameras I know of do have the zoom lever in front of the shutter button. However, two of my three bridge cameras also provide a ring around the lens barrel or a rocker switch on the left side of the lens barrel to zoom. I've never found zooming with the lever a problem, particularly when photographing aircraft. I use my second finger to zoom with the lever and my first finger to press the shutter.  On the  Z1000 I have the zoom lever programmed for stepping zoom which is very fast and ideal for fast tarrgets. I can also limit the the range of the zoom so that it stays within a certain range. I've had long zoom interchangeable lenses on DSLRs which have been a real pain to zoom due to the distance one has to turn the focus ring.

BTW, many of the top zoom lenses use a sliding sleeve to focus. I never really got comfortable with the zoom action on my Canon EF 100-400mm IS USM lens and much prefer the ring or the lever on the FZ1000.

[Dave]

There must be some DSLR users on here saying "I wish". The lag between final press to the picture taken varies over a range of DSLRs. Some of the lower priced ones can be dire.

Sorry however I don't quite believe that. Having handled several various superzoom bridge cameras, I find it hard to believe any of them would out perform even the most standard dSLR in terms of shutter lag. Perhaps the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ1000 performs well with lag however the price seems to be out of the thread openers budget. It is a well known fact that shutter lag on bridge cameras are slower than all dSLR's. Here is a table of shutter lag of some bridge cameras... http://www.cameras.co.uk/html/shutter-lag-comparisons.cfm The table also shows how hard it is taking 5 consecutive images in a row. An dSLR wins hands down here, no questions.

You obviously haven't used many DSLR's. Read the reviews - many are slower than bridge cameras of similar price because the focussing system of a built in lens can be faster than an add-on one.

I would guess it depends on the price of the camera/lens combination and the price of the bridge camera. A very cheap lens of course will probably not be the fastest focusing, but then why compare it to more expensive top of the range bridge cameras that vary between £600-£800. Any half decent lens on a cheap dSLR body will out perform virtually all compact bridge cameras in focusing.

Well you are partly correct in that all bridge cameras I know of do have the zoom lever in front of the shutter button. However, two of my three bridge cameras also provide a ring around the lens barrel or a rocker switch on the left side of the lens barrel to zoom. I've never found zooming with the lever a problem, particularly when photographing aircraft. I use my second finger to zoom with the lever and my first finger to press the shutter.  On the  Z1000 I have the zoom lever programmed for stepping zoom which is very fast and ideal for fast tarrgets. I can also limit the the range of the zoom so that it stays within a certain range. I've had long zoom interchangeable lenses on DSLRs which have been a real pain to zoom due to the distance one has to turn the focus ring.

BTW, many of the top zoom lenses use a sliding sleeve to focus. I never really got comfortable with the zoom action on my Canon EF 100-400mm IS USM lens and much prefer the ring or the lever on the FZ1000.

The zoom lever in front of the shutter button is simply in an awkward position if you are constantly needing to zoom in or out. Also the zoom on bridge cameras is driven by an electric motor, which isn't exactly fast. A mechanical twist zoom on the lens will always be faster than a zoom driven by a motor. Out of interest, how long does it take to go from the low end of your range (24mm) to the long end of your range (600mm) on your Panasonic FZ1000? Can you explain more about the zoom ring on the lens of your camera.

A twist zoom used by dSLR cameras will be much much quicker to reach and change focal lengths. The push pull of the original 100-400mm was loved by many for it's ease of changing focal lengths... personally I loved it and took to it like a duck to water. However I am aware, many also hated it. The new 100-400mm is a twist ring zoom mechanism, and almost just as fast to use.

When getting into photography, I mulled over getting a cheap bridge camera or a cheap dSLR. The thought of having to learn how to use a dSLR sounded daunting so I went with the bridge camera... a Panasonic FZ-18. After using it for 2 months, a day trip to Portrush Airshow 2008 was when I quickly realised the bridge camera was extremely limiting and it was quickly sold and upgraded to my first dSLR. I haven't looked back since.

viking9, you are most likely the person to know, what is the lowest speed bridge cameras have? Is it 30 seconds or do they also have bulb mode (effectively a shutter speed as slow as you want)?

[viking9]

Dave, I don't  intend to carry on this argument but I feel I must address some of the gross misconceptions you have about Bridge cameas.

The FZ1000 has shutter speeds from 60 secs to 1/6000th but it has not got Bulb . It  does have time-lapse and 120 fps slow motion  video and  an integral 5-axis OIS matched to a superb Leica 24 to 400 mm lens with DFD focusing technology. It also  has 4k video which allowis capture of 8 mp stills..

I can't remember when I last used a Bulb shutter setting, probably more than than 30 years ago in my  film SLR days and not for  serious photos.

As for the 1000's time to go from 100mm to 400mm using the ring - it takes a quarter of a turn, about half a second. And high speed burst is 12 fps. It can do 50 fps at 5 megapixel crop - large enough for the aircraft photos you and others publish on the Web.

Thanks for steering me to the table giving shutter lag. It shows only two true Bridge cameras (featuring viewfinders) and both have shutter lag ratings of fast!

I suggest you compare the FZ1000  with 24mm - 400mm LEICA  macro zoom lens (available for less than £500) and the entry level Canon EOS 750D available for over £500 with mediocre kit lens covering 18mm -- 135mm.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-fz1000

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-750d-rebel-t6i

BTW Dave, which DSLR do you use?